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A number of years back, I wouldn’t have had any problem with it. But as Christians have continued to get “lumped in” to right-wing Republican politics by the media and public opinion, it has become an issue. I won’t be using any graphics, media, or music having to do with July 4 on Sunday morning. We had an ice-cream social this past Sunday night, and we took the time to pray for our church members who had kids / grandkids in the military. We also sang a patriotic song or two. I was fine with that, as it was very “in house”…but for a Sunday morning when unsaved folks could come in…I’m not going to do anything to add to that stereotype.

posted at 2:07 pm on June 30th, 2008 by Paul J.

I agree with my former prof Keith Drury on this one…he writes…

My pet peeve: flags in church

Everybody ought to have a personal religious pet peeve. You know, something that really bugs you, or gets under your skin. Do you have something that rubs you the wrong way at church? I do.

Some people’s pet peeve is about the announcements or the way the Scripture is read or not read. Others get worked up when told to raise their hands or clap. Still others specialize in screening the message to pounce on any grammatical errors. Others get irritated about the sound system or lighting level. Music, of course offers the best opportunity for pet peeves of all kinds. Having a pet peeve is nice. It gives you something to think about during lulls in the service.

My pet peeve is about flags. That is, displaying flags in churches. Most American churches flaunt their flags right up front with other symbols like a communion table, Bible, and cross, so I get bugged just about every time I go to church. I grumble to myself, wondering why American churches insist on displaying a nationalistic symbols in their churches? What does it mean? That we practice some sort of civil religion? That America is somehow a Christian nation or is especially favored by God? Does it mean we believe, ‘my country right or wrong?’ Or, are we telling ourselves that we’re ‘American Christians’ not ‘world Christians?’ If a flag is a symbol, then what does it symbolize? I think about these kinds of things during the 16th repeat of choruses or during the reading of the announcements.

What are flags? People salute them, pledge allegiance to them, and sometimes follow them to their death. A flag is a powerful symbol — a symbol of loyalty and allegiance. And like all powerful symbols there is an explicit code for display. For instance, on a two-flag pole the top flag represents the ‘higher’ loyalty or greater authority. In a meeting hall or church, the flag on the right represents the ‘higher’ allegiance. Thus, if a church displays flags on the platform, the flag to the right of the pulpit is the greater loyalty. If the flags are on the floor, the one to the right of the audience represents the highest loyalty.

So what’s my peeve here? It is this: in 25 years of traveling and speaking, almost half of the churches I’ve been in display the American flag in precedence over the Christian flag. What???? I mumble under my breath, ‘What in the world does this mean?’ Is such a church really saying their loyalty to their country is greater than their loyalty to God? Yikes! Sometimes I almost forget what I was supposed to speak about. Of course it could be simple ignorance — maybe they don’t know the code. But if that is so, then why display flags at all?

Then there are those clever churches who display the Christian flag to the right of the speaker, then put the American flag on the floor to the right of the audience — presto, both in places of precedence. It’s a clever compromise, but what does this mean? That the preacher puts the kingdom first, and the people put the nation first? That’s a screwy notion and not much better.

And even where a church puts the Christian flag in the place of primacy, I get to thinking about why they display the nationalistic symbol at all. I keep wondering if they’d display an eagle on the communion table or if they were Germans in 1939 they’d put swastikas on the wall beside the cross. To me, any nationalistic symbol seems out of place in the church of God.

OK, I know I’m excessive on this. After all, that’s what a pet peeve is all about, making mountains out of molehills. And I know that medieval churches often mixed Bible images, national flags and images of local patrons in their stained glass windows. (They also burned people up who disagreed with their doctrine. I just don’t see what flags add to worship? Does it help us focus on God better? Not me. I focus on the flag.

Now this whole hang-up is generally only a low grade irritant. The only time it gets serious is when I visit some Bill Hybels wannabe’s church where they’ve stripped away all the Christian symbols from the 50 year-old church, removed the cross from the front wall, shoved the communion table into a back room, and obliterated all other Christian symbols — yet keep the American flag. Now, what in the world does *this* mean?

I know, many of you will chide me for nursing such a minor peeve (except, of course, you Mennonites who are smiling wide at my enlightenment). I know I should be thinking about loftier things in church than flags. But it is my pet religious peeve. I’ve kept it secret for several decades and am just now letting it out. A pet peeve isn’t for telling people usually, then it becomes a complaint. Peeves should be personal things, something you can grumble to yourself about — that’s the fun of it.

So, now that I’ve gone public with my flag pet peeve, I’ll be needing a new one I can keep private. Maybe you can help me — what’s your pet peeve?

So what do you think?

To contribute to the thinking on this issue e-mail your response to Tuesday@indwes.edu

By Keith Drury, 1995. You are free to transmit, duplicate or distribute this article for non-profit use without permission.

posted at 2:41 pm on June 30th, 2008 by Chad McCallum

We are doing a freedom series in July. “I am Free.” 1. Freedom from Offense. 2. Debt 3. Addiction 4. Self-Image

Imagery… we ARE using some red/white/blue americana graphic to tie everything together. Just using the month to focus on freedom in various ways. We went with the red/white/blue look just to bridge a gap between the 4th of July season and the topic of freedom. Nothing appears political or even too patriotic.

posted at 2:48 pm on June 30th, 2008 by travis

My issue is our priorities, the priority should be on Christ and his service. I would hope we could spend more energy on that then talking about the independence of our nation.

posted at 3:11 pm on June 30th, 2008 by Brad Zimmerman

At Memorial Day this year I was scheduled to preach about the parallels between Jesus and Joseph. However the song leader for the service decided that it was the perfect time for an Ode to America. Dressed in a flag tie, with flag socks and American Flag lapel pin we sang all the great American songs found in most song books. The songs had no connection to the topic for the evening. I am really not sure there is an approriate time during a worship service to honor our country instead of our Savior.

posted at 3:27 pm on June 30th, 2008 by JD

I think it comes down to the attitude of the church and their reasons for placing the flag or similar patriotic symbols in the church. I try to think, “what would Jesus do?” Would Jesus view it as serving two masters, or would he see it as a respectful nod in the direction of a country that has given us the freedom to worship our God? What I don’t believe, is that there is or should be a hard and fast rule regarding this. Every situation is different, with a different congregation, members, pastors and missions.

posted at 4:41 pm on June 30th, 2008 by Jeremy Johnson

I think we are way too worried about being overly political. Have you ever been to other nations? People are so proud of the nations they are from. They wave their flags and celebrate it. Only in America in our twisted, politically correct culture are we worried about it and practically ashamed of it. I think its beautiful, I also think its godly. Our culture is an expression of the heart of God, just like African culture is an expression and Asian culture is an expression.

I was born in America for a reason, people in Africa were born there for a reason. I’m not ashamed of that. I would venture to say that the nation of Israel celebrated their culture with all of their feasts.

Its kind of frustrating to me that people are ashamed of America to think that its out of place in the church. Here’s my question, if you think its out of place to talk about it at church, yet you celebrate anyway, isn’t that kind of hypocritical? We are the church right? Is it really going to offend lost people that we are thankful for people that shed their blood to guarantee the freedom that we have to worship Jesus.

I think we should honor the godly families that sacrificed their lives so that we could WORSHIP freely. Did we forget why we wanted independence? We should use the 4th to educate our people of what true heroics are and inspire them to follow the ultimate hero.

posted at 7:13 pm on June 30th, 2008 by Ross Middleton

Shaun Groves recently posted about this issue here: http://www.shaungroves.com/shlog/comments/celebrating_freedom/

posted at 8:04 am on July 1st, 2008 by Scott McClellan

At our church we use the 4th of July holiday as a spring board for celebrating the freedom we have in Christ. People are already thinking about the 4th of July and we’re utilizing it to encourage those who don’t know Christ to come to an understanding of true freedom beyond the freedoms of this country.

I definitely agree we shouldn’t use flags or America as idols, but flags in themselves are neutral it just depends on how you use them.

Great article and it’s always a good idea to challenge and think about why we do what we do in church.

posted at 11:35 am on July 2nd, 2008 by Sarah Kershaw

I have trouble with the flag is neutral thing. The flag is a powerful symbol of American culture. It is a lens through which we see America’s history, ideals, and dreams. The Cross is another powerful symbol. It is a lens through which we see our savior and his KINGDOM! Now you have to ask yourself; Which one of these powerful symbols belongs in a worship service that is specifically designed to honor God and the kingdom that is already but not yet. You also have to ask which symbol could be a distraction from that service?

posted at 9:15 am on July 3rd, 2008 by Joseph

This may not be popular…
Just so that you know up front:
I am a Vietnam Era Army veteran.
I was in the military police, was on the combat rifle team and I am a female.
Plus I am married to a disabled Viet Nam Navy veteran.
We are very patriotic…
I grew up in the 1960’s traditional, denominational paradigm of doing church.
We always centered worship on the holidays and then the rest of the year – the liturgical calendar.

I am now attending a non-denominational, rock style worship.
I am blessed to serve on the team that creates and designs the worship experience. I work hard to specifically design in this order: Elements that worship and glorifies God first – then to entice the skeptic, challenge the lukewarm and thrill the believer to a new level.

In the last couple of years I have started to feel strange about overlaying secular holidays over worshipping God. I am not sure why exactly…
Each time we get to a secular holiday (Veterans Day, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, 4th of July, Memorial Day) I find myself at odds with the rest of the group.
I think I have started to feel both sides of each holiday…

Mother’s and Father’s Day: people have issues. They may have had their biological father abandon them at a young age, their mother may have died, they may have been abused or adopted or can’t have children
Patriotic Holidays: More issues. They may have been scorned when returning from war, lost loved ones, don’t believe in war, would lay down their life for others, have children of grandchildren serving.

I also hear and understand the other side of the coin; that some people will feel ignored during these holidays, if they are not honored.

For me it goes back to what is worship about?
I do I feel God calling me to do…
Ultimately, I fall on the side of let’s keep worship about God. Let’s keep worship focused on worship ping and glorifying God first – then to entice the skeptic, challenge the lukewarm and thrill the believer to a new level.

Give me my three day weekends, I’ll celebrate it with my family, my flag, my memories…

Thanks for listening…

posted at 8:58 pm on July 5th, 2008 by dorothy (vicar of vibe)

The founding fathers of this great nation were devout Christians. I see many so-called Christians that have a problem showing support for their country, yet have no trouble showing their support for their sports teams, cars, bands, etc; It’s a warped sense of reality to think that if you show your support for your country that it too political. While politics are dirty, (church politics as well) so is everything that’s of this world.

Some good-hearted Christians have been brainwashed into thinking that being patriotic somehow supersedes our devotion to God. Without the freedoms that this country offers, it would be very difficult to worship. Don’t you see what’s happening to Christians in other parts of this world? It’s becoming fashionable to be anti-Christian, just as it is to be anti-American.

I really question where people’s hearts are if they’re offended by the flag in a church. Sounds like an Obama supporter to me….

posted at 8:03 am on July 7th, 2008 by Joe Caruso

Joe,

Thanks for sharing your perspective with us.

I’ll be completely honest with you: I don’t think it’s fair to label someone’s Christianity “so-called” because they are struggling with the degree to which patriotism and nationalism fit into their lives as followers of Christ. Furthermore, I don’t think it’s fair to compare “sports teams, cars, bands, etc.” to patriotism in this discussion unless you specifically mean celebrating those things (especially with media resources) within the context of a worship service. After all, that’s the discussion we’re having here. My guess is that very few people would support church media that is focused on sports teams, bands, and cars. Finally, I can’t help but think that using speculation about someone’s political affiliation as a means of insulting them is strong evidence of the divisive nature of politics and patriotism within churches.

posted at 9:36 am on July 7th, 2008 by Scott McClellan

Scott,

Thanks for your input, but we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think it’s entirely fair to speak out to hypocrites who bathe in idolatry all day long, yet if they go to church and see a flag. they’re offended. Sorry, that’s fascism. Here’s the thing Scott, you’re concerned that I’m offending someone because I question their patriotism. Why are Americans struggling with this non-issue? I’ll tell you why: Liberals have done their best to take God out of the schools, and many have a problem with the flag and pledge of allegiance in schools. These same types now want the flag out of the church.

While I consider my self an independent conservative as far as politics go, the Republican Party is clearly more patriotic. I would like to know where you are politically. I like full transparency. When it comes to national security, the Democratic Party has been anti-military. What party embraces death and calls it a woman’s right? The Democratic Party. What party wanst to indoctrinate our youth and redefine marriage? The Democratic Party.

Like it or not Scott, everything is political..

posted at 10:08 am on July 7th, 2008 by Joe Caruso

Joe,

I like your idea—let’s agree to disagree.

Beyond that, the COLLIDE Blog isn’t the right place to continue this conversation given its focus. Please feel free to email me personally with any further thoughts.

posted at 9:07 pm on July 7th, 2008 by Scott McClellan